Q: Hi, good day, sir. Hi, my name is Anna and I’m from St. Davis College. My question to you is, what is your take on opinion about jihad, or jihadi? Whatever is your opinion, what do you think of them?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the phrase jihad has a lot of meanings within Islam and is subject to a lot of different interpretations. But I will say that, first, Islam is one of the world’s great religions. And more than a billion people who practice Islam, the overwhelming majority view their obligations to their religion as ones that reaffirm peace and justice and fairness and tolerance. I think all of us recognize that this great religion in the hands of a few extremists has been distorted to justify violence towards innocent people that is never justified.
And so I think one of the challenges that we face is how do we isolate those who have these distorted notions of religious war and reaffirm those who see faiths of all sorts -- whether you are a Hindu or a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew or any other religion, or your don't practice a religion -- that we can all treat each other with respect and mutual dignity, and that some of the universal principles that Gandhi referred to -- that those are what we’re living up to, as we live in a nation or nations that have very diverse religious beliefs.
And that's a major challenge. It’s a major here in India, but it’s a challenge obviously around the world. And young people like yourselves can make a huge impact in reaffirming that you can be a stronger observer of your faith without putting somebody else down or visiting violence on somebody else.
I think a lot of these ideas form very early. And how you respond to each other is going to be probably as important as any speech that a President makes in encouraging the kinds of religious tolerance that I think is so necessary in a world that's getting smaller and smaller, where more and more people of different backgrounds, different races, different ethnicities are interacting and working and learning from each other.
And those circumstances -- I think all of us have to fundamentally reject the notion that violence is a way to mediate our differences.
All right. Yes, I may not get to every question. I’ll call on this young man right here. Right there, yes.
Q: Good morning, sir. My name is Jehan (phonetic). I’m from H.R. College. So my question is more about spirituality and moral values. We see today in today’s world, there more of a materialistic frame of thought when it comes to generations -- budding generations. So what do you believe is a possible methodology which governments, rather yours or any other governments in the world, they can adopt to basically incorporate the human core values, the moral values of selflessness, brotherhood, over the materialistic frame of thought which people work by today?
THE PRESIDENT: It’s a terrific question and I’m glad you’re asking it. India is making enormous progress in part because, like America, it has this incredible entrepreneurial talent, entrepreneurial spirit. And I think we should not underestimate how liberating economic growth can be for a country.
In the United States, I used to work with a lot of churches when I was still a community organizer, before I went to law school. And one of the common phrases among the pastors there was, it’s hard to preach to an empty stomach. It’s hard to preach to an empty stomach. If people have severe, immediate material needs -- shelter, food, clothing -- then that is their focus. And economic growth and development that is self-sustaining can liberate people, allow them -- it forms the basis for folks to get an education and to expand their horizons. And that's all for the good.
So I don't want any person here to be dismissive of a healthy materialism because in a country like India, there’s still a lot of people trapped in poverty. And you should be working to try to lift folks out of poverty, and companies and businesses have a huge role in making that happen.
Now, having said that, if all you’re thinking about is material wealth, then I think that shows a poverty of ambition. When I was visiting Gandhi’s room, here in Mumbai, it was very telling that the only objects in the room were a mat and a spinning wheel and some sandals and a few papers. And this is a man who changed history like probably no one else in the 20th century in terms of the number of lives that he affected. And he had nothing, except an indomitable spirit.
So everyone has a role to play. And those of you who are planning to go into business, I think it’s wonderful that you’re going into business and you should pursue it with all your focus and energy. Those of you, though, who are more inclined to teach or more inclined to public service, you should also feel encouraged that you are playing just as critical a role. And whatever occupation you choose, giving back to the community and making sure that you’re reaching back to help people, lift up people who may have been left behind, that’s a solemn obligation.
And by the way, it’s actually good for you. It’s good for your spirit. It’s good for your own moral development. It will make you a happier person, knowing that you’ve given back and you’ve contributed something.
Last point I would make -- I think this is another thing that India and the United States share, is there’s a healthy skepticism about public servants, particularly electoral politics. In the United States, people generally have -- hold politicians in fairly low esteem -- sometimes for good reason, but some of it is just because the view is that somehow government can’t do anything right. And here in India, one of the big impediments to development is the fact that in some cases the private sector is moving much faster than the public sector is moving.
And I would just suggest that I hope some of you decide to go ahead and get involved in public service -- which can be frustrating. It can be, at times, slow -- you don’t see progress as quickly as you’d like. But India is going to need you not just as businessmen but also as leaders who are helping to reduce bureaucracy and make government more responsive and deliver services more efficiently. That’s going to be just as important in the years to come. Because otherwise you’re going to get a imbalance where some are doing very well but broad-based economic growth is not moving as quickly as it could.
Excellent question.
I’m going to go boy-girl-boy-girl, or girl-boy-girl-boy, just to make sure it’s fair. Let’s see. This young lady right there -- yes.
Q: Hello. I actually wanted to ask you -- you mention Mahatma Gandhi a lot usually in your speeches. So I was just wondering how exactly do you implement his principles and his values in your day-to-day life, and how do you expect the people in the U.S. to live in those values? Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it’s a terrific question. Let me say, first of all, that he, like Dr. King, like Abraham Lincoln, are people who I’m constantly reading and studying, and I find myself falling woefully short of their example all the time. So I’m often frustrated by how far I fall short of their example.
But I do think that at my best, what I’m trying to do is to apply principles that fundamentally come down to something shared in all the world’s religions, which is to see yourself in other people; to understand the inherent worth and dignity of every individual, regardless of station, regardless of rank, regardless of wealth, and to absolutely value and cherish and respect that individual; and then hopefully, try to take that principle of treating others as you would want to be treated and find ways where that can apply itself in communities and in cities and in states and ultimately in a country and in the world.
As I said, I often find myself falling short of that ideal. But I tend to judge any particular policy based on, is this advancing that spirit; that it’s helping individuals realize their potential; that it’s making sure that all children are getting an education -- so that I’m not just worrying about my children; that I’m thinking, first and foremost, about the United States of America, because that’s my responsibility as President, but I’m also recognizing that we are in an interrelationship with other countries in the world and I can’t ignore an abuse of human rights in another country. I can’t ignore hardships that may be suffering -- that may be suffered by somebody of a different nationality.
That I think more than anything is what I carry with me on a day-to-day basis. But it’s not always apparent that I’m making progress on that front.
One of the other things I draw from all great men and women, like a Gandhi, though, is that on this journey you’re going to experience setbacks and you have to be persistent and stubborn, and you just have to keep on going at it. And you’ll never roll the boulder all the way up the hill but you may get it part of the way up.
This gentleman in the blue shirt. Do we have a microphone? Oh, here we go. Thanks.
Q: Good afternoon, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon.
Q: It’s an honor to question you. What my question would be is, when you were being elected as President, one of the words you used a lot was “change.” After your midterm election, the midterm -- it seems that the American people have asked for a change. The change that you will make, how exactly is it going to affect young India, people from my generation?
THE PRESIDENT: That’s an interesting question.
Q: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: The United States has gone through probably the toughest two years economically as we’ve gone through since the 1930s. I mean, this was a profound financial crisis and economic shock, and it spilled over to most of the world. India weathered it better than many countries. But most of the work that I did with Prime Minister Singh in the first two years in the G20, we were focused on making sure that the world’s financial system didn’t collapse.
And although we’ve now stabilized the economy, unemployment in the United States is very high now relative to what it typically has been over the last several decades. And so people are frustrated. And although we’re making progress, we’re not making progress quickly enough.
And one of the wonderful things about democracy is that when the people are not happy, it is their right, obligation, and duty to express their unhappiness, much to the regret sometimes of incumbents. But that’s a good thing. That’s a healthy thing.
And my obligation is to make sure that I stick to the principles and beliefs and ideas that will move America forward -- because I profoundly believe that we have to invest in education, that that will be the primary driver of growth in the future; that we’ve got to invest in a strong infrastructure; that we have to make sure that we are taking advantage of opportunities like clean energy.
But it also requires me to make some midcourse corrections and adjustments. And how those play themselves out over the next several months will be a matter of me being in discussions with the Republican Party, which is now going to be controlling the House of Representatives. And there are going to be areas where we disagree and hopefully there are going to be some areas where we agree.
Now, you asked specifically, how do I think it will affect policy towards India. I actually think that the United States has a enormous fondness for India, partly because there are so many Indian-Americans and because of the shared values that we have. And so there is a strong bipartisan belief that India is going to be a critical partner with the United States in the 21st century. That was true when George Bush was President. That was true when Bill Clinton was President. It was true under Democratic and Republican control of Congress.
So I don’t think that fundamental belief is going to be altered in any significant way. I do think that one of the challenges that we’re going to be facing in the United States is at a time when we’re still recovering from this crisis, how do we respond to some of the challenges of globalization? Because the fact of the matter is, is that for most of my lifetime -- I’ll turn 50 next year -- for most of my lifetime, the United States was such a dominant economic power, we were such a large market, our industry, our technology, our manufacturing was so significant that we always met the rest of the world economically on our terms. And now, because of the incredible rise of India and China and Brazil and other countries, the United States remains the largest economic and the largest market but there’s real competition out there.
And that's potentially healthy. It makes -- Michelle was saying earlier I like tough questions because it keeps me on my toes. Well, this will keep America on its toes. And I'm positive we can compete because we've got the most open, most dynamic entrepreneurial culture; we've got some of the finest universities in the world; incredible research and technology. But it means that we're going to have to compete.
And I think that there’s going to be a tug of war within the United States between those who see globalization as a threat and want to retrench, and those who accept that we live in a open, integrated world which has challenges and opportunities and we've got to manage those challenges and manage those opportunities, but we shouldn’t be afraid of them.
And so what that means, for example, is on issues of trade, part of the reason I'm traveling through Asia this week is I believe that the United States will grow and prosper if we are trading with Asia. It’s the fastest-growing region in the world. We want access to your markets. We think we've got good products to sell; you think that you’ve got good products to sell us. This can be a win-win situation.
So I want to make sure that we're here because this will create jobs in the United States and it can create jobs in India. But that means that we've got to negotiate this changing relationship. Back in the 1960s or ‘70s, the truth is the American economy could be open even if our trading partners’ economies weren’t open. So if India was protecting certain sectors of its economy, it didn’t really have such a big effect on us. We didn’t need necessarily reciprocity because our economy was so much larger.
Well, now, things have changed. So it’s not unfair for the United States to say, look, if our economy is open to everybody, countries that trade with us have to change their practices to open up their markets to us. There has to be reciprocity in our trading relationship. And if we can have those kinds of conversations, fruitful, constructive conversations about how we produce win-win situations, then I think we'll be fine.
If the American people feel that trade is just a one-way street, where everybody is selling to the enormous U.S. market but we can never sell what we make anywhere else, then people in the United States will start thinking, well, this is a bad deal for us. And that could end up leading to a more protectionist instinct in both parties -- not just among Democrats, but also among Republicans. So that's what we have to guard against.
All right, it’s a young lady’s turn. This young lady with the glasses -- yes.
Q: A very warm welcome to you to India, sir. ]
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you so much.
Q: I'm from H.R. College of Commerce and Economics. We were the privileged college to host Mr. Otis Moss this January. Sir, my question to you is why is Pakistan so important an ally to America, so far as America has never called it a terrorist state?
THE PRESIDENT: Well -- no, no, it’s a good question. And I must admit I was expecting it. (Laughter.) Pakistan is an enormous country. It is a strategically important country not just for the United States but for the world. It is a country whose people have enormous potential, but it is also, right now, a country that within it has some of the extremist elements that we discussed in the first question. That's not unique to Pakistan, but obviously it exists in Pakistan.
The Pakistani government is very aware of that. And what we have tried to do over the last several years, certainly -- I'll just speak to my foreign policy -- has been to engage aggressively with the Pakistani government to communicate that we want nothing more than a stable, prosperous, peaceful Pakistan, and that we will work with the Pakistani government in order to eradicate this extremism that we consider a cancer within the country that can potentially engulf the country.
And I will tell you that I think the Pakistani government understands now the potential threat that exists within their own borders. There are more Pakistanis who’ve been killed by terrorists inside Pakistan than probably anywhere else.
Now, progress is not as quick as we’d like, partly because when you get into, for example, some of the Northwest Territories, these are very -- this is very difficult terrain, very entrenched. The Pakistani army has actually shifted some of its emphasis and focus into those areas. But that's not originally what their armed forces were designed to do, and so they’re having to adapt and adjust to these new dangers and these new realities.
I think there is a growing recognition -- but it’s something that doesn’t happen overnight -- of what a profound problem this is. And so our feeling has been to be honest and forthright with Pakistan, to say we are your friend, this is a problem and we will help you, but the problem has to be addressed.
Now, let me just make this point, because obviously the history between India and Pakistan is incredibly complex and was born of much tragedy and much violence. And so it may be surprising to some of you to hear me say this, but I am absolutely convinced that the country that has the biggest stake in Pakistan’s success is India. I think that if Pakistan is unstable, that's bad for India. If Pakistan is stable and prosperous, that's good.
Because India is on the move. And it is absolutely in your interests, at a time when you're starting to succeed in incredible ways on the global economic stage, that you [don’t] want the distraction of security instability in your region. So my hope is, is that over time trust develops between the two countries, that dialogue begins -- perhaps on less controversial issues, building up to more controversial issues -- and that over time there’s a recognition that India and Pakistan can live side by side in peace and that both countries can prosper.
That will not happen tomorrow. But I think that needs to be our ultimate goal.
And by the way, the United States stands to be a friend and a partner in that process, but we can't impose that on India and Pakistan. Ultimately, India and Pakistan have to arrive at their own understandings in terms of how the relationship evolves.
Okay. I've got time for one more question. It’s a guy’s turn. This young man right here, in the striped shirt.
Q: Good afternoon, Mr. President. It’s an absolute honor to hear you, and I must say this, that one day I hope I be half as good as a leader as you are today.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you're very kind. Thank you.
Q: Mr. President, my question relates to your Afghanistan policy. In light of your statements that the troop withdrawal would start in 2011, there have been recent developments that would indicate that USA has been in talks with Taliban so as to strike out a stable government in Afghanistan as when you withdraw. Now, does this point to the acceptance of the inevitability of the U.S. to fulfill the vision which they had, with which they invaded Afghanistan in 2001? Does it point out to their inability to take a military control of all the southern regions so that we can install a stable government? You notice that in Iraq where there’s a lot of instability now. So does it point to a sort of tacit acceptance of U.S. inability to create harmony in Afghanistan?
THE PRESIDENT: First of all, I want to just unpack some of the assumptions inside the question because they were broadly based in fact, but I want to be very precise here.
I have said that starting in the summer of next year, July 2011, we will begin drawing down our troop levels, but we will not be removing all our troops. Keep in mind that we ramped up significantly because the idea was that for seven years we had just been in a holding pattern; we’d had just enough troops to keep Kabul intact but the rest of the countryside was deteriorating in fairly significant ways. There wasn’t a real strategy. And my attitude was, I don't want to, seven years from now, or eight years from now, be in the exact same situation. That's not a sustainable equilibrium.
So I said, let’s put more troops in to see if we can create more space and stability and time for Afghan security forces to develop, and then let’s begin drawing down our troops as we’re able to stand up Afghan security forces.
Now, in fact, it turns out that in Iraq -- you mentioned Iraq as a parallel -- in Iraq, we have been relatively successful in doing that. The government is taking way too long to get formed, and that is a source of frustration to us and I’m sure to the Iraq people. Having said that, though, if you think about it, it’s been seven months since the election, and violence levels are actually lower in Iraq than they’ve been just about any time since the war started -- at a time when we pulled back our forces significantly. So it shows that it is possible to train effective, indigenous security forces so that they can provide their own security. And hopefully politics then resolves differences, as opposed to violence.
Now, Afghan, I think is actually more complicated, more difficult, probably because it’s a much poorer country. It does not have as strong a tradition of a central government. Civil service is very underdeveloped. And so I think that the pace at which we’re drawing down is going to be determined in part by military issues, but it’s also going to be determined by politics. And that is, is it possible for a sizeable portion of the Pashtun population in Afghanistan that may be teetering back and forth between Taliban or a central government, is it possible for them to feel that their ethnicity, their culture, their numerical position in the country is adequately represented, and can they do that within the context of a broader constitutional Afghan government.
And I think that's a worthy conversation to have. So what we’ve said to President Karzai -- because this is being initiated by him -- what we’ve said is if former Taliban members or current Taliban members say that they are willing to disassociate themselves with al Qaeda, renounce violence as a means of achieving their political aims, and are willing to respect the Afghan constitution so that, for example, women are treated with all the right that men are afforded, then, absolutely, we support the idea of a political resolution of some of these differences.
Now, there are going to be some elements that are affiliated to the Taliban that are also affiliated with al Qaeda or LT or these other organizations, these extremists that are irreconcilable. They will be there. And there will need to be a military response to those who would perpetrate the kind of violence that we saw here in Mumbai in a significant ongoing way -- or the kind that we saw on 9/11 in New York City.
But I think a stable Afghanistan is achievable. Will it look exactly as I might design a democracy? Probably not. It will take on an Afghan character.
I do think that there are lessons that India has to show not just countries like Afghanistan but countries in sub-Saharan Africa. I mean, some of the incredible work that I saw being done in the agricultural sector is applicable to widely dispersed rural areas in a place like Afghanistan and could -- I promise you, if we can increase farmers’ yields in Afghanistan by 20 percent or 25 percent, and they can get their crops to market, and they’re cutting out a middleman and they’re ending up seeing a better standard of life for themselves, that goes a long way in encouraging them to affiliate with a modern world.
And so India’s investment in development in Afghanistan is appreciated. Pakistan has to be a partner in this process. In fact, all countries in the region are going to be partners in this process. And the United States welcomes that. We don’t think we can do this alone.
But part of our -- and this is probably a good way to end -- part of my strong belief is that around the world, your generation is poised to solve some of my generation’s mistakes and my parents’ generation’s mistakes. You’ll make your own mistakes, but there’s such incredible potential and promise for you to start pointing in new directions in terms of how economies are organized, in terms of how moral precepts and values and principles are applied, in how nations work together to police each other so that they’re not -- so that when there’s genocide or there is ethnic cleansing, or there are gross violations of human rights, that an international community joins together and speaks with one voice; so that economic integration isn’t a source of fear or anxiety, but rather is seen as enormous promise and potential; where we’re able to tackle problems that we can’t solve by ourselves.
I went to a lower school -- do you call them high schools here? It’s sort of a high school. And Michelle and I saw this wonderful exhibit of global warming and the concerns that these young people have -- they were 14, 15. And their energy and their enthusiasm was infectious. And I asked them, which one of you are going to be scientists who are going to try to solve this problem? And all of them raised their hands. And I said, well, this is hugely important for India. And they said, no, not for India -- for the world.
You see, their ambitions were not just to be great scientists for India. Their ambition was to be a great scientist for the world -- because they understood that something like climate change or clean energy, that’s not an American problem or an Indian problem -- that’s a human problem. And all of us are going to have to be involved in finding solutions to it.
And as I listen to all of you, with your wonderful questions, I am incredibly optimistic and encouraged that you will help find those solutions in the years to come.
So, thank you very much for your hospitality. Thank you, everybody. (Applause.)
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